1. It doesn't and, until recently here, the support clock kept on ticking in prison.



Taking away many of their ways to earn a living (driver's license, state licensing for things like security guards), doesn't add to the solution either.



We've plowed this ground before and I'm not going to repeat everything I said earlier.



Yes, people should support their children and something needs to be done. Prison isn't it and I don't have any "pat" solutuions.



Oh, we've abolished debtor's prison but this is an exception that falls under "contempt of court". No bail usually, they just sit there.

Posted at 1:32PM on Jan 14th 2006 by Ann Adams

2. i think it is the slap in the face this guy needs to realize he needs to stop wallowing in self pity and provide for his child(ren). kids shouldn't suffer and many single moms depend solely on that child support coming on time and in full amount every month. we sure did and it was horrible whenever payments were late until "dad" got put in jail for failure to pay. that snapped him right back into shape and no payment has been late since. my sister is only 16 so my mom is still getting timely payments.

Posted at 2:57PM on Jan 14th 2006 by Desiree

3. I say if the man isn't going to be responsible for his child then send him to jail. In the real world there are very real conseqences for your actions and choices. As an adult he should realize that. Caring for the children isn't an option for the mother so why shouldn't the father be expected to do the same? It makes me ill to hear so much sympathy for these deadbeat dads while the children and mothers are struggling to get by. One comment especially got to me - will it really help the dad to let him sit in jail. Who is going to help the mother and child? After racking up $100,000 he obviously has no plan to do his part, sounds like it is time for jail to me. Who knows how many chances he has already been given to pay.

Posted at 8:19PM on Jan 14th 2006 by Stacy

4. I agree with you all. I am a single mother who has had to move in with family. I AND my son's father have college degrees ! The burden that nonpayment of child support creates on ALL of society and taxpayers IS criminal. If that parent were living with the children and heard them saying "I'm hungry" or complaining that their clothes are all too small and full of holes, do you think he would be so quick to walk away?

We need to find a solution. This is NOT debtors prison. These people are a scourge to our whole community. We need to have more work release programs, or electronic ankle monitoring. Part of his sentence needs to be to go to treatment for his substance abuse choices. Make HIM pay for any costs incurred in his sentence. So what if it takes him more than 5 years to pay off his debt? (I know it will take me more than that to pay off the debt I have incurred due to no child support for years) Maybe then HE will has his epiphany: the responsibility for children is a 24/7 , every day, lifetime responsibility.

Posted at 9:41AM on Jan 15th 2006 by kathleen

5. If child support is so equitable, why is it that only non-custodial parents are ordered by the Courts to pay it and why are custodial parents not made to account to the courts as to how their child support is spent?



Women go for custody because they know it means tax free, monthly income.



Non-payment of child support only puts a burden on all of society when the custodial parent makes a conscious choice to go on TANF.

Posted at 10:14PM on Jan 15th 2006 by Dave Briggman

6. Of course it is a burden to society. TANF recipients do not constitute the majority of child support cases. Who do you think pays for judicial and collection costs of (ALL TYPES)of non collected child support? Not the parents..the taxpayers! In fact, if you read the laws a little more carefully, you will see that all Child Suppport Enforcement Agencies have in place procedures to repay themselves back for money given as TANF. This repayment goes to the state BEFORE it goes to the children. There is currently legislation in front of House Committees to refigure that arrangement.

As far as how the money is spent....do you need a monthly bill? Food, clothes, housing, childcare, transportation..... What are the national averages of what is costs to raise a child yearly. I think around 13 to 15 K. SO lets, see...I think I in fairness I should get a percentage of that based on how much time my I care for my son as opposed to with his father. Oh, no...let's see what the law says. Support is calculated on income of both parents split based on custody arrangement. Why don't you check the laws and the facts?

I worked in nonprofit for years.There are plenty of people in our country, not just single mothers who look for an easy way out. The statement that women "go for custody" to get money is baseless bull****. I pursue support because I know it is the responsibility of my son's father to care for his son as do I.

"...tax free income.."?! I have worked since my son was 6 weeks old. In that time I have completed my B.S and almost my Master's degree. I have passed up COUNTLESS personal, professional and educational opportunities in deference to my responsibility to raise my child. In all these years we have been often hungry. All our clothes are hand me downs and from Good Will. My family has had to buy me 2 beat up old cars. We have been without health coverage. I have incurred more than 23,000 worth of debt to keep us afloat.

I would do it all again in a heartbeat. I am in love with my child and I AM A RESPONSIBLE PARENT.

In the meantime, I have spent thousands of dollars of my own money, then when I couldn't afford it, the states money pursuing child support. I have damaged myself financially that will take me years to rectify.

My son's father has traveled, quickly quit jobs when found, bought cars, clothes, had a social life, and not seen his son once.

This is NOT "tax free income". It is money necessary to care for the child that he AND I created.

Get a clue.

Posted at 9:32AM on Jan 16th 2006 by kathleen

7. Unfortunately there are many men in america who are either unable or unwilling to be responsible for the actions they're so humble to accknowlege. Boasting to their male friends of their conquests yet never revealing the lack of support to assist in the aftermath of either a one night stand or weeks, months, or years of what took five minutes to do and eightteen years to finish. Children need both parents to step up and help them become the future adults that will possibley lead this country some day. Without the propper upbringing from resposible parents, we risk delivering these children into a world of alcohol,drugs,gangs,and constant instability.Raising kids is the responsibility of not only the parents who spent those long exciting five minutes or so to produce such child, but is still in my belief a moral duty of the people around to help and assist in any way possible. Men, please stand up and take care of your jobs as a responsible individual,and help pay for these childrens upbringing instead of thinking you can dodge the bullet by standing in denial.

Posted at 11:08AM on Jan 16th 2006 by Quintin A. Davis

8. Unfortunately there are many men in america who are either unable or unwilling to be responsible for the actions they're so humble to accknowlege. Boasting to their male friends of their conquests yet never revealing the lack of support to assist in the aftermath of either a one night stand or weeks, months, or years of what took five minutes to do and eightteen years to finish. Children need both parents to step up and help them become the future adults that will possibley lead this country some day. Without the propper upbringing from resposible parents, we risk delivering these children into a world of alcohol,drugs,gangs,and constant instability.Raising kids is the responsibility of not only the parents who spent those long exciting five minutes or so to produce such child, but is still in my belief a moral duty of the people around to help and assist in any way possible. Men, please stand up and take care of your jobs as a responsible individual,and help pay for these childrens upbringing instead of thinking you can dodge the bullet by standing in denial.

Posted at 11:08AM on Jan 16th 2006 by Quintin A. Davis

9. So, "Dave Briggman": women keep their kids for tax free money huh?

Wow. And here was me thinking the reason most mothers keep their children is because they love them, but need the financial AND if possbible emotional and practical support of their ex-partners/spouces because they want to make sure they have the best upbringing possible, or even, as in many cases, they keep their children not only because they love them but because their "daddy" has walked out and left them without so much as a backward glance, and need the financial support just to survive.



And I also thought that the thousands of pounds it takes to give take care of just one child: you know, food, soap etc, clothes, school supplies/nappies (depending on age), modern household necessities like gas, electricity, water rates, council tax, you know, all that pesky stuff you have to deal with to keep a roof over the child's head and keep that roof warm, lit and supplied with water - there was me thinking all of that would kind of, you know EAT INTO that handy little wad of monthly cash a little. And that's not including spending money to buy presents, or pay for days out, or club memberships, or music lessons...



Guess I'm naive, huh?



And yeah, Dave, about stealing that lovely free money for selfish means: well, you've got my mother banged to rights. When I was under 16 the pitiful sum of child income support (NOT child support paid by my father who left when I was 11: my mother never asked for it, even though we desperately needed it, because she felt it more important to encourage a continuing relationship between father and daughter, not that that worked) paid to my mum due to her wages (again, Dave, note; I said WAGES, not sponging off the economy - my mother worked full time and then some to try and provide for us) coming under a national average sometimes was NOT spent directly on me. Sometimes bits of it was spent on things like second hand shoes for herself because her old second hand pair were falling to bits and she had to go to work to earn money for...Oh, yeah, right: for ME.



But I guess the fact that there are millions of single mothers struggling without emotional, practical and or financial support doesn't matter, does it Dave, because of those few bad apples abusing the system?



Before I go, let me let you in on a little secret:



There are ALWAYS abusers of EVERY system. The trick is managing to support those who need it despite that and punish the abusers accordingly. I'm not saying that prison is the answer, but something does have to be done, and I await with bated breath your solution to how this can be achieved.



Or do you truly feel that every single parent is an abuser of the system?

Posted at 11:36AM on Jan 16th 2006 by Alice

10. All,
I agree with Dave Briggman. In divorce who do you think gets full custody of the children even if the father wants an equal amount of time with the children....the MOTHER. I wonder how many of you here have even been in a divorce situation. Of those mothers who have - how many, and be honest with yourself, have intentionally interefered with the fathers visitation? And for your information not all states recoup TANF costs paid to a mother who also receives child support. In Wisconsin 100% of the child support payment goes to the mother. If you want men to accept the RESPONSIBILTY of making child support payments then you mothers should take the RESPONSIBILTY to NOT INTERFER with the fathers right to have a meaningful relationship with thier children.
Dan

Posted at 2:46AM on Jan 18th 2006 by Dab

11. Dan, as a woman I am aware that things are stacked in my favour if I ever have children with my boyfriend and hopefully husband-to-be, and the relationship between us goes wrong and ends.

But I can assure you that for as many cases there are that a woman spitefully upsets the visitation process, there are just as many cases where the father himself is to blame.
As I already mentioned, my mother never once went after my father for child support: she wanted the two of us to have a relationship that wasn't based on money. And guess what? He never called, hardly ever wrote to me and when we did occasionally meet up, it was always ME that had done the chasing.
My mother wouldn't talk to him; she couldn't - he had hurt her too badly. But she made herself do it just once; to make it clear to him that she would not object to him seeing me, in fact, she encouraged us to see one another, she wanted me to know my father and him to know me.
He didn't know me from the age of 12 up, and of his own choosing he still doesn't. We are now in touch again via letters and phone conversations but we haven't seen one another for nearly five years. I tried desperately to see him. We made arrangements time and again; all of them planned in a neutral location with halved travel costs, only to have him cancel last minute. And later, when he married the woman he had had the affair with (after trying through me to get back with my mother) he concentrated his time on her children, and I was all but ignored for three years.

....So How did my mother 'make' my father not visit me? How did my mother 'make' my father not call me, or write to me?
But of course, at least she had that lovely child support money which was all she wanted...Oh, wait, no she didn't.

There are many more stories like mine, I can assure you. I know a couple of them personally and have heard of many, many more, just as on the other side I have heard many stories involving loving father's barred from their child(ren)'s life.

So, my final question to you is this:

How is it ALWAYS the fault of the ex-wife/girlfriend when visitation is difficult or nonexistent?

Do you really believe that men never get it wrong?

Posted at 4:44AM on Jan 18th 2006 by Alice

12. This guy is deadbroke. The government has no place in family affairs. If Family Law were equitable, most of these cases wouldn't even go to court. The majority of custodial parents, predominantly women, receive egregious sums from the courts and are not held accountable on any level.

Posted at 10:55AM on Jan 18th 2006 by Eddie

13. Alice,
I am not saying men never get it wrong. I am not denying that there are deadbeat dads. For those that are truly deadbeats, they deserve what they get. What I am saying is that this is the image of divorced fathers that the public is exposed to and believes. For every deadbeat dad out there there are 10 dedicated fathers who walk into family court and have thier children ripped from thier lives. As a father I can say that family courts are extremely biased against men. A mother is considered the better parent by default whereas the father must PROVE he is a good father. I am not saying that all women do this to thier ex, I am saying that a majority of them do. In order for them to receive child support they have to end up with custody of the children. In order to obtain custody women know all they have to do is walk into court, shed some tears, make an allegation, which neednt be proven, of abuse to them or the children by the ex and wam bam the children are thiers. It is not only the money for which the women seek custody, it is to take revenge on the ex, see I can take the house, the car, make you pay the bills, take your money and best of all I can take away your children. Ask yourself - how many divorced people do you know had a nice clean divorce as opposed to one that was nasty and dirty. Of those nasty ones how many were due to custody battles. Tell me Alice if you and your boyfriend got married, had children, and lets say he left you for another or simply wanted to be single again, would you be angry enough to use the tactics I mentioned to take revenge on him? Would you make sure you got custody of the kids just to spite him? If you say no to these things than you are the exception to the rule. Even if he did leave you for another would you interfer with his relationship with his children because you thought he deserved it? Again you would be the exception to the rule if you said no. Even if the circumstances were reversed and you left him for another he would still face a biased family court that would reduce him to a VISITOR in his childrens lives. Not to mention the false allegations he will face in court, he abused me and the children, he sexually abused the kids, he was never there for us. Trust me, all the mother has to do is make the allegation, they do not need to prove it nor show any evidence, the father is then assumed GUILTY UNTIL AND IF PROVEN innocent. Yes I do blame the mom for doing this but even more so I blame the courts for allowing this to happen. As for child support, if the father were given 50% placement of the children there would be no child support to worry about as both parents would be responsible for the childrens costs when in thier care. Ask yourself why are mothers awarded sole custody in the majority of divorces, even when the father wants to remain in thier childrens lives? Why does the state have so many tools at thier disposal to enforce child support yet a father whose "visitation" is interfered with has only one thing he can do, take mom back to court. Back to the very same biased court that took his children away in the first place. I am guessing that your father is feeling very guilty about not pursuing a relationship with you but have you gotten his side of the story about what happened? As for child support, they take mine right out of my check. I pay 821.00 a month. My ex has made sure that my children do not want to see me. Havent seen them in over four years and the live in the same city as me. You guessed it, she is on state aid becuase she simply does not like to work. She gets my 821.00 a month and yet here she is getting evicted for the third time. I pay this child support so she can provide food,shelter and clothing to my kids so I ask where is the money going that I give her? According to the court that is NONE OF MY BUSINESS! She can spend the money any way she wants and does not have to make an accounting to anyone on where it goes. My son has been in court for juvenile offenses several times that I never knew about because she chose not to tell me but they always find me when its time to pay the court costs and fines.
Dan

Posted at 4:40AM on Jan 19th 2006 by Dan

14. Dan, what can I say?
That's disgusting and I sincerely feel for you. That one human being can be so cruel and dismissive of another beggars belief. I do think the courts are often unfairly biased.
I believe all parents, male or female, should have the right to see their children unless they are actually a danger to them, and I sincerely hope that my feelings should remain consistant should God forbid I be involved in break up or divorce and children be caught in the middle.

If he jilted me for another...Well, if that involved an affaire that would make him a bastard in many respects, but honestly; why would I hurt my children just because I was angry? As I said, unless my children are in danger, I believe the father would have every right not just to visitation, but to joint custody. We may hate one another, but that is neither the child(ren)'s fault nor their problem; they will not have asked for this to happen, and all that would happen if I cut daddy out of their life would be hurt caused by me. It would be mine and his duty as parents to ensure our child(ren) are loved and cared for, and that we remain as civil as possible for their sake(s), and if the father is devoted, which as you say many are, what right have I got to take away his responsibilities? After all, how would *I* feel if he had the same power I seem to have, and simply cut me off so I never got to see my child(ren) ever again, with little or no support from anybody??

I apologise for being inflammatory in my last post. I suppose as a woman I simply felt attacked by what unfortunately is the truth: there ARE women out there who will use their children as weapons to hurt others with, and I overreacted to an issue I feel strongly about, because, well, I truly believe I would simply not act in that way, but there are many men who would tar me with the same brush simply because I am female, stereotyping and stigmatisation which I'm sure as a man you have had many soul destroying and frustrating diffulties with yourself.
I can assure you, however, Dan, that however many like your ex there are, there are an equal number who feel and act the same as I hope I will be able to if my life ever comes to that; maybe grudingly, but in the best interests of the child(ren) it took TWO people to create.

I promise. We are not all the same.

Posted at 6:24AM on Jan 19th 2006 by Alice

15. Dave sounds like an angry ex-husband who either resents having to support his children or who is not supporting his children because of his bitterness toward his ex-wife. How much in arrears are you Dave?

The only time I have ever been on public assistance was when I was married to Mr. Deadbeat. I was working two minimum wage jobs to support us and he sat on his butt at home. Then had the nerve to go down to Curtis Mathis and put a down payment on my credit card on an expensive entertainment system because he thought we could afford it since I worked two jobs (while pregnant). When we divorced and he had to pay $200 (he thought his "fair share" was $80) a month he thought he was supporting me in high style and making my car payment as well as the rest of my bills. Wife #2 informed me that he had at least 15 jobs that she KNEW of during their short two year marriage. Somewhere in here child support was raised to a fair amount. At the same time he writes a letter to the court saying he is giving up rights to me because he is so bothered by seeing our daughter being put through lies, GREED and heartache. He then tries to get my eight year old to tell him it is okay to never come back because he is a horrible father. Then he left wife #3 who he cheated on wife #2 with while she supported him through nursing school to go to Wyoming to avoid paying child support. Wife #3 thought she was following him after the house sold until she went to the bank for some cash only to find the account was cleaned out. I tracked him down in less than a year working under his father's social to avoid paying. By this time he was about $15,000 behind and finally got what he deserved (although in my opinion it is still less than he actually deserves). Five years probation for failure to pay child support. He got nothing for commiting social security fraud or identity theft. He only has to pay $100 per month on the arrearages. By the time his probation is over he will have paid less than a 1/4 of the support back. I haven't taken one dollar of assistance in 14 years but I do pay taxes to help take care of other deadbeat parents children. I believe mothers can be just as bad, so I am not trying to man bash.

Imagine how upset these men would be if they lived with the child and 100% if their income went to the children. Account for how I spend child support - Please! Not only am I burdened with my own child support issues but I also have to pay taxes to take up your slack Dave. Sorry to be so tough on you Dave but you sound just like all the other deadbeats who think it is someone else's responsibility to raise their children. If things were stacked in the womans favor as much as you men think, you would all be in jail after the first late payment.

Attention deadbeats get off the couch and go get a real job. Stop quiting everytime the withholding order goes into affect. Try to live a respectable, honest life so at least you can say you did the right thing regardless of what the mother does. You can only be responsible for your own actions and you can't control what the other person does whether it is right or wrong. Bottom line - GROW UP! Even though you may be proud of what you are doing nobody else thinks you are cute or right - even the new flavor of the month you feed your sob stories to. Unless of course she is just as big of an idoit as you. In that case just be happy and good luck with that - and don't forget to mail the check so that life in the real world can continue with a little less stress and hardship.

Posted at 10:27PM on Jan 20th 2006 by Stacy

16. I can't even begin to express how sick custodial parents are of hearing the "she/he prohibits me seeing my children" excuse. Do you realize that the two issues (support andd parenting) are TOTALLY seperate in court. The are not mutual issues.
For you who asked how many of us "honestly" never got in the way of the other parent seeing our child.....PLEASE!!! I have all but begged for help raising my son. My son's father has not so much as made a phonecall. His self justification is that I ' won't let him' because he isn't paying support. What a load of crap! I couldn't stop him from pursuing his parental rights if I wanted to. And he sure must have the money to afford a lawyer, because he isn't buying food for his kid!
Just another way to try to make themselves feel justified for being IRRESPONSIBLE SCUMBAGS. Furthermore, even if that WERE the case ( I am sure some custodial parents DO make it difficult) is that ANY excuse to make the child suffer? Does that make the noncustodial parent any less responsible?
How about this , selfish noncustodians....WHAT ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE CHILD?
k

Posted at 4:26PM on Jan 22nd 2006 by kathleen

17. Okay, first off I have been through a divorce. I also have children that I get $236 a month for BOTH!!!! My daughters father has his bachellor's degree and a Masters degree. I have worked 3 jobs and am going to school full time to keep myself and my children clothed, fed and taken care of. I can not tell you how many times I have gone with out food to make sure that my children had enough. My ex walked away and has never been back. He CHOSE to walk away. There are visitation orders in place and he CHOSES not to see her. Which I think is sad that she has to suffer that because HE decided that she was not worthy of him.
I do not recieve TANF. The only assitance I get is food stamps and that is about to be taken away from me because I got another raise at work. Some how they expect me to pay rent, child care, feed, and pay bills on what I bring home, ohhh, but wait all the assistance that you get is based on before taxes and your insurance not after. There is another Dan that you dont think about. What about those of us who are just asking for day care expenses to be paid. That is all I requested and when I took him back to court he quit his job to keep from paying me. There are some women out there who put the child in the middle and that is WRONG!!!! My ex husband does not even pay for his son. He does NOTHING for him. I get nothing and I am having to raise him with nothing. How do you explain to a boy that his father walked out on us when he was a baby. How do you explain to a boy that his father wants nothing to do with him. Dan, I am sorry that you have had such a bad expeirence but not all women are like that. I just want my children to be able to wear new clothes and not something that I had to buy at a yard sale. I want my children to have shoes that dont have holes in them. I want to be able to put food on the table and make sure that I have enough money for gas to get to work. I want my daughter to be able to go to gymnastics like she dreams of doing. I want my son to be able to play t-ball like other boys. See some of us are more concerned with the welfare of the child and how that child and how that child is raised. There are some of us who actually give a darn about the child. Dan, you should think before you open your mouth and you should examine who you are upset with your ex or society and vent your frustration that way and not be so general about what you are accusing people of until you know the whole story from everyone.

Posted at 8:44PM on Jan 22nd 2006 by Jennifer

18. How did this society come to this point ? From the idea of eliminate welfare, it ends up jailing citizens for being unable to pay child support ! Jailing someone for debt is nothing more than "debtor's prison" regardless of how to dress up your reasoning with pretty words or moral high ground. Would it be possible that someday, someone will have a bright idea of jailing people for failing to pay, say, credit card debts or mortgage debts ?
Moral issues aside, this practice is clearly a violation of Civil rights and a slap in the face of the 13th Amendment against "involuntary servitude" or slavery. Someday, those who violated citizens' rights will be prosecuted and brought to justice for their crimes.

Posted at 6:03PM on Feb 11th 2006 by Harry

19. Well in this particular case, 1,666 per month in "Child Support" from the FATHER seems a bit excessive but one must also wonder where is the MOTHER’S 1,666 contribution through the states enforcement system as Federal precedent would require under the guise of similarly situated litigants?

The answer, Simple.... It does not exist, it is assumed or implied.
One parent is given the benefit and credit for providing a home, when facts are that both are required to have a home in order to be considered fit parents.

Lets see here, logically speaking....
Michigan and its tyrant zealots feel that by placing a parent in jail, be it a mother or a father that they are helping the kids, when in fact any somewhat intelligent person would clearly be able to see that what is really at issue is federal funding.

Not only do they receive federal funding for the monies that he "owes", in a contract that was imposed upon him by an arbitrary decision rendered in a void judgment, lacking any basis in Fact or LAW, but the state also receives additional federal funds for the incarceration, to the tune of not less than $145 per day plus reimbursement for all medical expenses.

How much of this federal funding under incentive payments and incarceration reimbursement will be disbursed to the child?

Of what benefit can this parent ever be to the child given that the state prison system DOES NOT REHABILITATE people it hardens and DESTROYS what ever hope they may have once had.

Exactly what has this done for the child?

Absolutely NOTHING whatsoever.....

It May have allowed the child to be able to attend the fathers funeral,
if the child is unlucky enough to receive notification, and the mother is willing to acknowledge it.

Personal opinion is fine however that does nothing for the child either.

So what exactly is the answer?

Don’t spread your legs, and you don’t have to worry about it….
Don’t pull that thing out of your pants and you won’t have to worry about it….

If you have a child, and take custody of that child, you should be willing to support it with or without the financial assistance which by legal definition is nothing more than welfare. There is no entitlement for spreading your legs, or for not wrapping that thing up. What you are entitled to is what you get…. A Child.
The rest is up to you to be responsible about.
But then if we were responsible, we would not have the extreme number of single parent kids running around trying to figure out which way is up or what is right or wrong. Both parents would be there to insure that they were properly informed and that their decisions were well informed.

Posted at 6:08PM on Feb 11th 2006 by Fixthefoc

20. BTW..... FOODSTAMPS = T.A.N.F

Posted at 6:25PM on Feb 11th 2006 by fixthefoc